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 4000 Years of Arguments Settled Here!
 Does the Bible say you should not consume alcohol?
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GrayEagle

USA
9966 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2006 :  2:42:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit GrayEagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Remember that Jesus' first recorded Miracle was turning water into wine at the wedding. Wine..not grape juice.

GrayEagle
Who do PEOPLE say Jesus is? Who do YOU say Jesus is?

samantha_blue


1193 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2006 :  2:56:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, and I feel that God intended wine to be just like any food, to be used in moderation!! Alcohol doesn't kill you, matter of fact, the studies show in moderation it can actually be very beneficial. It can kill you if you over use or over consume. Same with food, if you overdo it, you will actually hurt your body instead of nourish your body!! God has the perfect plan if we just follow his ways we would all be healthy. That is part of what makes us human, we have to have the dicipline to do the right thing, not over drink, over eat, etc. The body has the ability to heal itself with food if we follow his plan. It's up to us, he's laid out the guidelines!

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GrayEagle

USA
9966 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2006 :  2:57:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit GrayEagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sam, I agree with you 100%

GrayEagle
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GrayEagle

USA
9966 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2006 :  2:58:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit GrayEagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
But what if your church has a convent that states you should not consume alcohol? What do you do? Obey what the Bible says or what your church teaches?

GrayEagle
Who do PEOPLE say Jesus is? Who do YOU say Jesus is?Go to Top of Page

GrayEagle

USA
9966 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2006 :  3:00:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit GrayEagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I will admit that I have struggled with those questions for a LONG time. The bottom line ( I believe) is that Christ is the head of the Church (not man) and the Bible is His Instruction Book for us.

GrayEagle
Who do PEOPLE say Jesus is? Who do YOU say Jesus is?Go to Top of Page

GrayEagle

USA
9966 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2006 :  3:02:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit GrayEagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Also, I rarely have a drink and Joy does not drink.

GrayEagle
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daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2006 :  3:04:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The church I am attending does in fact have it in its covenant. Many do but I have yet to hear them damning anyone or pointing finger. I could go in Sunday and be shocked but not thus far anyways.

I reckon thats when it gets back to where I think your personal relationship with God is of importance.

Dad, I am curious about if those kinda covenants are set by God or the church.... doesnt the church make the covenants? The ones Ive read are all different from one another.

Even caring has an ulterior motive. from the movie NELL


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GrayEagle

USA
9966 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2006 :  3:08:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit GrayEagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
God made a number of covenants with us. Those are all recorded thoughout the Bible.

The ones you and I are talking about are not in the Bible (most of the time they are pasted in the hymnal or maybe the pew Bible). Does that help?

A covenant is God's promise to the human race. Ususally in the form of "if you will do this, then I will do this"

There may be one or two exceptions in the Bible.

GrayEagle
Who do PEOPLE say Jesus is? Who do YOU say Jesus is?

Edited by - GrayEagle on 03/17/2006 3:14:58 PMGo to Top of Page

samantha_blue


1193 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2006 :  3:24:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, personally I feel we should follow the Bible, not organized religion!! I think the Church is a place where people with like beliefs come together to grow and worship!! I don't feel however that a Church should put Covenants that do not follow what the Bible teaches! Plus I fully agree that Christ should be the head of the Church, not man!! Too many times you find that the beliefs in the Church stems from "man" instead of the Bible and God's Word!

Edited by - samantha_blue on 03/17/2006 3:27:24 PM

Edited by - samantha_blue on 03/17/2006 6:13:38 PMGo to Top of Page

daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2006 :  6:18:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well thank yuns. I knew what the covenant is and used for however SOME thats Ive seen... I have to admit, theyve confused me.

Even caring has an ulterior motive. from the movie NELL


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nativelady

USA
11126 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2006 :  7:08:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit nativelady's Homepage  Reply with Quote
These were some of the verses I found on "strong drink"

“Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.” (Prov. 20:1)
“Be not among winebibbers.... For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty.” (Proverbs 23:20-21)
“Who hath woe? Who hath sorrow? Who hath contentions? Who hath babbling? Who hath wounds without cause? Who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.” (Proverbs 23:29-35).
“Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them!” (Isaiah 5:11).
“Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink.” (Isaiah 5:22).
“But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.” (Is.28:7).
“Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken.” (Habakkuk 2:15).
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”

I guess it's a matter of personal choice.

~Me crazy? Nah, just three teenagers, get back with me in the year 2010, we'll discuss it then.~Go to Top of Page

GrayEagle

USA
9966 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2006 :  7:15:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit GrayEagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Lady, you are absolutely correct, it is a matter of choice.

All of the verses you correctly quoted indicate abuse of alcohol. And like other things when we abuse it, it is bad for us. Over eating (gluttony), sexual exceses or other sexual abuses, and such.


GrayEagle
Who do PEOPLE say Jesus is? Who do YOU say Jesus is?Go to Top of Page

daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2006 :  8:46:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I gluttonied tonite.. I admit that too.

Even caring has an ulterior motive. from the movie NELL


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nativelady

USA
11126 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2006 :  9:03:26 PM  Show Profile  Visit nativelady's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Doc, Quit! You got me tickled! LOL!

I am going to be truthful here. Because.....well we are in the relgious forum...and well for another the Lord knows my heart anyways even if I did try to hide it.

I have ALWAYS loved wine. And even more than that I loved mixed drinks. Yep! But one day, The Lord troubled my heart about it and I didn't do it anymore. Not that I did it all the time. No! I done it occassionally. And I would find the "excuse" to medicate myself when I was sick. WHICH NOW TO ME THATS OK IF YOU USE IT MEDICINALLY BUT ...I would pour just alittle more than I should. And got a wee bit silly with it.

I don't or won't point fingers at anyone who does this because Well, I know it's an over used phrase, but I live in a glass house. I can't say "You're wrong!" when I done something wrong just awhile ago. Ya know?

To me it's a personal decision. My decision was based on the conviction in my heart. And maybe what is considered sins of ommission to me might not be sins of ommission to you. I just get a different reading of the subject based on my "spirit" bearing witness with it. Does this make sense?


~Me crazy? Nah, just three teenagers, get back with me in the year 2010, we'll discuss it then.~

Edited by - nativelady on 03/17/2006 9:05:43 PMGo to Top of Page

ShadowMan

USA
4158 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2006 :  9:08:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit ShadowMan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well said, Lady. Thanks for that.

Shadow

This is my kirttimukhaGo to Top of Page

GrayEagle

USA
9966 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2006 :  9:13:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit GrayEagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Lady, I think you are so correct. If you feel in your heart that God does not want you to drink, then you shouldn't. Plain and simple..don't.

All I was pointing out is that the Bible, and my understanding of it, does not prohibit drinking alcohol. But if you (gerneric) abuse it, the Bible does say that is wrong. Just like over eating, sexual abuse, and the such.

GrayEagle
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tybee

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2006 :  10:35:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Bible gives a mixed message about drinking wine: to drink or not to drink.

It gives a clear message about alcohol abuse and that is to stop. Abuse dwells in people not in bottles. The Demon is not in the Rum but in the abuser.

TybeeGo to Top of Page

Social change

USA
274 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2006 :  10:53:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, Native Lady, in the end it is a personal decision. Everyone must search their on heart for what is right for them. Whether you wish to drink a glass of wine is something only you can decide. That is the way it should be. Personally I do not drink wine because of an allergy, but I will drink a beer ever so often on a hot summer day or dinner at a Mexican restaurant.

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WIL

USA
54 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2006 :  01:39:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bible does warn us of Glutony, one of the seven deadly sins.
Anything that seperates Us from 'ourselves' to our fellow human beings
Shadow, dont have my concordance (packing/moving) do you know Scrip Verse ?

WILGo to Top of Page

daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2006 :  02:09:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Welp, I admitted I glutoned.. I can confess many of my sins.. I can also witness what Ive learned from my sins as well.. but then again.. I dont think there are any saints that can say theyve never ate to much??? hmmmm

Even caring has an ulterior motive. from the movie NELL


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ShadowMan

USA
4158 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2006 :  09:21:14 AM  Show Profile  Visit ShadowMan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Proverbs 23

1 When thou sittest to eat with a ruler, consider diligently what is before thee:

2 And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite.

3 Be not desirous of his dainties: for they are deceitful meat.

4 Labour not to be rich: cease from thine own wisdom.

5 Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? for riches certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven.

6 Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye, neither desire thou his dainty meats:

7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.

8 The morsel which thou hast eaten shalt thou vomit up, and lose thy sweet words.

9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.

10 Remove not the old landmark; and enter not into the fields of the fatherless:

11 For their redeemer is mighty; he shall plead their cause with thee.

12 Apply thine heart unto instruction, and thine ears to the words of knowledge.

13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

15 My son, if thine heart be wise, my heart shall rejoice, even mine.

16 Yea, my reins shall rejoice, when thy lips speak right things.

17 Let not thine heart envy sinners: but be thou in the fear of the LORD all the day long.

18 For surely there is an end; and thine expectation shall not be cut off.

19 Hear thou, my son, and be wise, and guide thine heart in the way.

20 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh:

21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.

22 Hearken unto thy father that begat thee, and despise not thy mother when she is old.

23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

24 The father of the righteous shall greatly rejoice: and he that begetteth a wise child shall have joy of him.

25 Thy father and thy mother shall be glad, and she that bare thee shall rejoice.

26 My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways.

27 For a whore is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit.

28 She also lieth in wait as for a prey, and increaseth the transgressors among men.

29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?

30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.

31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.

34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.

35 They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

Shadow

This is my kirttimukhaGo to Top of Page

Cherry Blossom

USA
18932 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2006 :  12:49:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Over indulgence of anything is gluttony.

The drink is not the sin, the one whom over indulges is the sinner.

Cherry Blossom
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Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2006 :  11:05:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Religion or no religion, if you want to avoid trouble in this life, remember . . .

MODERATION in all things.

WildflowerGo to Top of Page

nativelady

USA
11126 Posts

Posted - 04/15/2006 :  7:02:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit nativelady's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I've decided to stay out of the Political forum! LOL! But ummm anwyays, Politics and I dont' mix well. Everyone says Black others say White and what it all boils down to is , Majority rules and nothing else can be done until next time. Ok I've said all that..

But I do want to thank those who emailed me and had wonderful words of encouragement. The phone calls too! Those of us who have the same PERSONAL views, I would hate to know that I was doing more damage than good, and thats why I went ahead and brought this issue over here because for one, Someone who is very dear and special to me was getting VERY upset with what they read and was wanting to lash out but held back. Thank you and you know who you both are. It's been this way from the beginning of time. And it will continue to be this way until the end of time. I have no hard feelings or any anger in my heart towards anyone. In fact, I laughed at some of the assumptions that were made. Imagine that? LOL! Of course, I am a happy person most of the time. So it doesn't take much to humor me. But, with all that off of my mind, and nestled here in where I need to be, I have to go back to the times sitting on the porch with my Pa Pa who once told me ....There are three things you just dont want to do and 1) Don't talk about your money. 2) Don't talk about Politics and if you do, don't argue it. 3) Don't argue Religion, it defeats the purpose. Pa Paw, I know your not here to read this but often times I feel you are, but I miss you and in all honesty, How right you were. An amazing man who was an inspiration to everyone, who walked the walk and talked the talk. He was my REAL HERO! (sorry Shadow) Pa Paw knew added to or took away from gossiping conversations. He walked away from Conflict, He prayed for our country, his family, and he definetly made an impact in my life. More than anyone else I've ever known. He was a Saint in my eyes. I had to ask Granny after he passed away, if she (being behind closed doors) ever seen him doing anything wrong. She said and I quote, "Baby, he was human, as we all are, but in all these years, No, Your Pa Paw was what you seen. Just the man he was. Very humble!"

"Christianity is not a religion; it is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ."Go to Top of Page

Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2006 :  10:07:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Someone who is very dear and special to me was getting VERY upset with what they read and was wanting to lash out but held back. Thank you and you know who you both are . . . I have no hard feelings or any anger in my heart towards anyone. In fact, I laughed at some of the assumptions that were made.


Native, I am not following the conversation over here in the Religion forum. But I saw this post and I have to correct one thing.

If you are referring to me, I did not "assume" anything about you. In fact, my post to you on the subject began with the words . . .

"CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG"

I asked if I was reading your words correctly, and explained why your words sounded the way they did to me. I did not "assume" anything.


WildflowerGo to Top of Page

nativelady

USA
11126 Posts

Posted - 04/28/2006 :  11:15:36 AM  Show Profile  Visit nativelady's Homepage  Reply with Quote

Wildflower, I did correct you for what you assumed. I've never had a drinking problem in my life. Too many other problems to add another one. Never liked being around others "effects" of alcohol even in my younger years.

Dated a guy once who thought every hour was 5 o'clock somewhere. Uggh! But anyway, people change, hearts, too! And time goes on...

One night in 1987, My graduation night, I told the Lord if he got me through that night I would never do it again. Ok, I am 37 years old now. I was 18 then, so after 19 years, I haven't been intoxicated again.

"Christianity is not a religion; it is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ."Go to Top of Page

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